Murder The penalty for friendly fire in Murder

[ViceWatercolour]

I'm new, so I'd like to say hello to everyone reading this. I'm not exceedingly familiar with the community yet, so please forgive me.

To my point at hand, I believe that the penalty for friendly fire in Murder is too severe. The plugin makes the assumption that each instance of friendly fire is intentional, and therefore it punishes you by relegating your rank that you've already attained through fair play.

As a new player, I am not familiar with how each weapon within the game fires and works, so it was frustrating to be lowered to Dirt when I fired off a Gun v2.0 and ended up shooting someone that was standing in front of the actual Murderer. I had apologized for the action, and the apology was accepted, yet I find it unfair that something was automatically determined to put me at fault when I was playing the game in (what I assumed) to be the intended way.

I understand that there must be a way to discourage users from discharging their weapon towards other players, however I believe the penalty needs to be less severe. There should be a mechanic that gives you a warning how many players are in the range of your intended target (since players are usually in clusters), or one that doesn't immediately kill players on the first strike of damage.

I'd probably assume this is directed towards Developers, but community feedback is always welcome.

 

[GlowingLights]

This thread has been moved to suggestions.

 

[Fox]

Hello there. Welcome to the forums.

Yes, I know the punishment for shooting people can be a bit rough. Mainly with what happened to you.

But, how will the Devs know if you MEANT to shoot the Innocent player, or if you were indenting to shoot the innocent player. The punishment is meant to harm players that just go around shooting wildly.

Also

or one that doesn't immediately kill players on the first strike of damage

This will be used to sorta "Cheat" in murder. Lets say everyone but TWO players have a gun. No one can decide who the murderer is. So lets say someone has this free Charge that doesn't kill people on the first shot. This will make it so they don't lose any of their stats. Then everyone would know its the other player. MCPZ's Murder is meant to stay as close to GMod's murder (The murder it was based off of).

Like I said, yes, the punishment is severe but if you play enough you will get back to your rank. As for the Suggestion I'm gonna be rating "Don't implement."

 

[ViceWatercolour]

Hello there. Welcome to the forums.

Yes, I know the punishment for shooting people can be a bit rough. Mainly with what happened to you.

But, how will the Devs know if you MEANT to shoot the Innocent player, or if you were indenting to shoot the innocent player. The punishment is meant to harm players that just go around shooting wildly.

Also

This will be used to sorta "Cheat" in murder. Lets say everyone but TWO players have a gun. No one can decide who the murderer is. So lets say someone has this free Charge that doesn't kill people on the first shot. This will make it so they don't lose any of their stats. Then everyone would know its the other player. MCPZ's Murder is meant to stay as close to GMod's murder (The murder it was based off of).

Like I said, yes, the punishment is severe but if you play enough you will get back to your rank. As for the Suggestion I'm gonna be rating "Don't implement."

Thank you for responding to this thread.

I know the punishment is meant for players that intentionally "shoot wildly", however the main feature out of this suggestion is that it could tell you how many players you might hit when yielding a weapon. It wouldn't be cheating: I would suggest using the boss bar and display it to the user's client holding the gun, telling them who is in range of the weapon while holding it.

That way, if it happens, it's less of a chance that it's an accident and the punishment could stay the same. I've been playing however it's really hard to get back up to where I was at: it seems that once you shoot a player, it ranks you up slower too.

 

[Tyler]

I find it messed up. When I shoot ONE person, I lose 25 karma, but if I shoot a SECOND person (regardless of accident or not), I lose like 200?
Personally, I think that if you shoot more than one person, it kills you. That's less harsh than losing that much karma.

I know the punishment is meant for players that intentionally "shoot wildly"

I believe it is also to stop players who are harassing others by having it out to get them.

 

[Timelord]

I'm new, so I'd like to say hello to everyone reading this. I'm not exceedingly familiar with the community yet, so please forgive me.

To my point at hand, I believe that the penalty for friendly fire in Murder is too severe. The plugin makes the assumption that each instance of friendly fire is intentional, and therefore it punishes you by relegating your rank that you've already attained through fair play.

As a new player, I am not familiar with how each weapon within the game fires and works, so it was frustrating to be lowered to Dirt when I fired off a Gun v2.0 and ended up shooting someone that was standing in front of the actual Murderer. I had apologized for the action, and the apology was accepted, yet I find it unfair that something was automatically determined to put me at fault when I was playing the game in (what I assumed) to be the intended way.

I understand that there must be a way to discourage users from discharging their weapon towards other players, however I believe the penalty needs to be less severe. There should be a mechanic that gives you a warning how many players are in the range of your intended target (since players are usually in clusters), or one that doesn't immediately kill players on the first strike of damage.

I'd probably assume this is directed towards Developers, but community feedback is always welcome.

This didn't exist before the block ranks were implemented.

To me at least it was fine yet I too was one of the frequent randomers and was rank 62ish at that time. I have went from rann 52 to gold 92%. I have gotten back to 90 at least so I did something there.

The change was implemented by gigo the creator of murder. I don't know their reasoning yet I would guess it was because of the fact high ranks had high innocents shot.

To me this was just a down side of being a good player... that sometimes you might be wrong that it was this person. The only thing that I would change is this because the players before the rank change were so much better and unlikely hackers yet now most of them are either hackers or people undeserving of the rank. Some I do think are alright yet who knows.
(Ps there is so many hackers in the leaderboards its sad don't even try unless you are going to play it safe)

Just try and keep your cool... camp and use f5. I do it because of the hackers and the risks of shooting a innocent. I got to 92 because of this. Dumb but easy.

 

[ViceWatercolour]

This didn't exist before the block ranks were implemented.

To me at least it was fine yet I too was one of the frequent randomers and was rank 62ish at that time. I have went from rann 52 to gold 92%. I have gotten back to 90 at least so I did something there.

The change was implemented by gigo the creator of murder. I don't know their reasoning yet I would guess it was because of the fact high ranks had high innocents shot.

To me this was just a down side of being a good player... that sometimes you might be wrong that it was this person. The only thing that I would change is this because the players before the rank change were so much better and unlikely hackers yet now most of them are either hackers or people undeserving of the rank. Some I do think are alright yet who knows.
(Ps there is so many hackers in the leaderboards its sad don't even try unless you are going to play it safe)

Just try and keep your cool... camp and use f5. I do it because of the hackers and the risks of shooting a innocent. I got to 92 because of this. Dumb but easy.

Would it be possible to get a statement from gigosaurus regarding the penalty?

We should also come up with better solutions that don't involve heavy deranking. We shouldn't discourage gameplay because they're afraid of getting punished and are unsure and/or it's an accident. There has to be a better system.

 

[Timelord]

Would it be possible to get a statement from gigosaurus regarding the penalty?

We should also come up with better solutions that don't involve heavy deranking. We shouldn't discourage gameplay because they're afraid of getting punished and are unsure and/or it's an accident. There has to be a better system.

I am not certain yet A you could ask him yourself in a converstion by clicking on their profile picture and click start conversation. Or B do this@(gigo)

This was also implemented because of rank being unfair to others. If one person had 500 shot yet a 15.0 murderers shot rate with only 1000 games played. You know they randomed to get to top. I did it when I was bored yet only because I was bored.

 

[ClockworkFlips]

You lose the coins from that game, and if it is done repetitively by the same person, you begin losing Karma and such. Yes?

 

[MariTheVillain]

Trying to have a machine make assumptions isn’t a great idea. There is way too much room for errors and exploits

There was a similar thread a little bit ago, so I’ll leave my response from there here

Honestly not a bad idea, with a few tweaks:

Time based penalties would be great- as opposed to game based penalties. Here is what I mean.
If a player wants, they can just shoot a player a game with only a karma penalty, but if you really want results, make it like, four innocents an hour for a massive karma penalty, and or automated punishment. This leaves room for anyone who is:

• Generally having a bad day, and are having a hard time telling who the murderer is
• Victims of karma baiting
• People deceived by the murderer

While also punishing people who are just randomly shooting people for no reason. The recommended punishment's I would say would be no more than day bans, no less than hour bans from the network (even just murder if possible.) Maybe increasing penalties for repeat offenders? The point of this is to reveal to staff when users may just be mass rdming, and also to offer more swift and automated punishments for those who do so.

And maybe instead of cleaning the slate every hour, it could just remove a recent inno kill from the counter, so if I shot three innos and the hour ticks, I would only be marked as shooting two innos, while my ingame stats still reflect the true counter.

With a system like this implemented however (Assuming it doesn't just get shot down entirely) a lot of testing should be done to ensure it works properly, removing kills over time.

The idea of that post is that karma loss and punishment should not be based on a singular game’s stats, but multiple game’s stats within a window of time.