Introducing: Mutations!

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I've played murderer and had a go with the mutations and here's my opinion.
The mutations are a really good idea and pretty fun, but only if you're a bystander. The mutations make it really difficult to even kill someone as the murderer, let alone win. I get that the point in the mutations is most likely to make it harder, but people are going to vote for mutations because it sounds cool, then new players are going to struggle a lot. I've been playing for ages and even i think some of the mutations are hard. While i was a bystander and constantly jumping or running away from the murderer, i felt sorry for them because they just couldn't get me. The games are also a lot shorter and the double emerald mutation is kinda annoying when you've spent loads of coins on the upgrade. I appreciate the time you must have spent on doing these but in my opinion, i really don't like them.

Adding to my point above ^
Some people may not know the mutations are on and could report people for hacking, or shoot people if they are sprinting. It'll also be harder to prove hacking in murder as you'd have to show that it's not a mutation map along with the identities etc. I already stopped playing downgrade because of the update and this might end up making me stop playing murder too :cool:
 
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OmqCourtney said:
I've played murderer and had a go with the mutations and here's my opinion.
The mutations are a really good idea and pretty fun, but only if you're a bystander. The mutations make it really difficult to even kill someone as the murderer, let alone win. I get that the point in the mutations is most likely to make it harder, but people are going to vote for mutations because it sounds cool, then new players are going to struggle a lot. I've been playing for ages and even i think some of the mutations are hard. While i was a bystander and constantly jumping or running away from the murderer, i felt sorry for them because they just couldn't get me. The games are also a lot shorter and the double emerald mutation is kinda annoying when you've spent loads of coins on the upgrade. I appreciate the time you must have spent on doing these but in my opinion, i really don't like them.
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Its not harder its just newer and unknown. Winning as murderer might take different ways of doing things.

One thing I can see many is a cooldown on jumping as it can be instantly done once on the ground again. Then again its better and enjpyable without the cool down. Now with the cool down people can't easily run away from the murderer.

As well not to mention the murderer has this ability so use it as a dodging mechanism. Just need to be creative and think of your advantages and routes.
 
TheTurtleBros said:
No, it is harder. It is literally harder... not newer or unknown....
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Yes I see your point it is hard how you are doing it. Play styles... for example bo3 with its walk on walls mechanism. This changed things yet people found ways to make it fun and possible to win.

Not a good example because each team has equal players yet things were changed to make it better for themselves. I didn't really like it yet I adapted and started liking it. I agree it is harder. Yet disagree that it hasn't became easier.One map I have been thinking of will be op for murderer (italy) there is a lot more movement and possibilities.

Anyways beside me just analyzing there is a new skill added to the game that adds more skills. Think of a rpg...
Before you had to drink mana potions to regen mana now you can have armour that gives you a regen for mana or increases mana. Not instead of worrying about mana you can attack and defend more.

Just need to be creative with your options.
 
TimeLord said:
Yes I see your point it is hard how you are doing it. Play styles... for example bo3 with its walk on walls mechanism. This changed things yet people found ways to make it fun and possible to win.

Not a good example because each team has equal players yet things were changed to make it better for themselves. I didn't really like it yet I adapted and started liking it. I agree it is harder. Yet disagree that it hasn't became easier.One map I have been thinking of will be op for murderer (italy) there is a lot more movement and possibilities.

Anyways beside me just analyzing there is a new skill added to the game that adds more skills. Think of a rpg...
Before you had to drink mana potions to regen mana now you can have armour that gives you a regen for mana or increases mana. Not instead of worrying about mana you can attack and defend more.

Just need to be creative with your options.
Click to expand...

Sometimes being creative with your options isn't entertaining and fun.
Considering the only murder mode that works currently as of now is the mutated maps, everyone is limited to a certain style of gameplay and for some people that game style isn't the type of style that some people like. Everybody votes for it onces it pops up in the lobby as well, because their chances of being a bystander are most likely better than the murderer and they take advantage of this because they know it is harder for the murderer to win.

Also:

TimeLord said:
I agree it is harder. Yet disagree that it hasn't became easier.
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You're literally saying I agree it is harder, yet agree that it has become easier/disagree that it has become harder...
 
TheTurtleBros said:
Sometimes being creative with your options isn't entertaining and fun.
Considering the only murder mode that works currently as of now is the mutated maps, everyone is limited to a certain style of gameplay and for some people that game style isn't the type of style that some people like. Everybody votes for it onces it pops up in the lobby as well, because their chances of being a bystander are most likely better than the murderer and they take advantage of this because they know it is harder for the murderer to win.

Also:


You're literally saying I agree it is harder, yet agree that it has become easier/disagree that it has become harder...
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The way it is now for normal games is how it works in the orginal gmod. 1 person with gun 1 murderer the gunner can drop the gun via murderer kills them or shoots the wrong person.
...
Entertaining and fun are different with winning sometimes you do sometimes you don't then. Without entertaining and for the win you won't have as much fun most of the time.

For me I like having many options and being creative that is fun for me. Just because you don't think it isn't fun doesn't mean other do not. I suggest creating a suggestion for it such as the cooldown I mentioned earlier.

I said it was harder in a certain aspect yet easier in another going to my point it is the same as it was just need to change a few things in your playstyle for the mutation. And its possible for there not to be a mutation so if you dislike it don't vote it.
 
TimeLord said:
And its possible for there not to be a mutation so if you dislike it don't vote it.
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YOU CAN'T play a proper game without a mutation, every non-mutated game has a bug where it says (0/5) emeralds and they disappear from your inventory so what else are we supposed to vote for?

TimeLord said:
The way it is now for normal games is how it works in the orginal gmod. 1 person with gun 1 murderer the gunner can drop the gun via murderer kills them or shoots the wrong person.
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That's not the way mcpz interpreted it on the server is it though... There is a bug, and that is that... I don't see why a response like this should be seen as a result of a bug... you're basically in a way saying that non-mutated games are still good because it's the same is the original gmod... if people wanted to play it in that style without collecting emeralds to get a gun, they can go and play gmod themselves, mcpz murder was most likely made to be different in a sense and unique.

TimeLord said:
For me I like having many options and being creative that is fun for me. Just because you don't think it isn't fun doesn't mean other do not. I suggest creating a suggestion for it such as the cooldown I mentioned earlier.
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But you don't have many options when you're pretty much in a way forced to play a specific game style of murder (by specific, I'm referring to the mutated games because people don't like original murder right now because of the emerald bug)
I never said it wasn't fun for others, but for the majority of people, they think it is not fun or isn't as fun as before. And just because YOU think it's fun, doesn't mean other's will... see, that can be used both ways so you can't really say that in an argument because it defeats the purpose of what you're saying if you can use it the other way around....

Cooldowns for jumping still won't do much anyway, I don't know why you're blocking the fact that it is hard for the murderer and giving simple solutions that generally don't make it much easier for the murderer... and this is just for one mutation type... and the fact that they can jump is still there, so doesn't do as much but it could still help the slightest bit and anything is good enough right now in my eyes, because I have a high chance of Murderer and it's quite hard.

TimeLord said:
I said it was harder in a certain aspect yet easier in another going to my point it is the same as it was just need to change a few things in your playstyle for the mutation. And its possible for there not to be a mutation so if you dislike it don't vote it.
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You didn't say that in what you said, you literally said it is harder but it isn't harder and in no way did I see an implication of "harder in a certain aspect yet easier in another" so if you want it to be like that, it would probably be best to say that at first.
It's not just the playstyle of the mutation, playstyle doesn't matter in some cases.... mutations make it OP for the bystanders and although possible for the murderer to win, it is still extremely hard and people do get confused with all the sprinting from double jump and speed looks like sprinting without particles. I could change my gamestyle to many different things, but in reality none of them to me (and most likely a lot of people) would work any better than my original style of how to win as the murderer.
I could go running around swinging my sword out to get everyone or I could hide my sword and act innocent. The problem is, if I swing my sword, I'll get caught quickly and with the mutations, it's way easier to get away and to get a gun so your chances are lowered.
If I act innocent, everybody else has a gun, I don't... obviously in the end they'd expect me... or If it was double emeralds and after a few minutes or so I don't have a gun or such I'd be suspicious.... especially if there is a big group of people with guns which sometimes there is a small or big group of people that camp with guns and such. And in the double jump, obviously they can sprint at the same pace as me, and they can double jump all around the place making it exceptionally hard to get a hit if you through or sword or to even kill by left clicking anyway if they're in the air constantly jumping, and you can't really keep chasing that person for so long because otherwise somebody else is going to stumble across you and expose you as the murderer or shoot you.
 
TheTurtleBros said:
YOU CAN'T play a proper game without a mutation, every non-mutated game has a bug where it says (0/5) emeralds and they disappear from your inventory so what else are we supposed to vote for?



That's not the way mcpz interpreted it on the server is it though... There is a bug, and that is that... I don't see why a response like this should be seen as a result of a bug... you're basically in a way saying that non-mutated games are still good because it's the same is the original gmod... if people wanted to play it in that style without collecting emeralds to get a gun, they can go and play gmod themselves, mcpz murder was most likely made to be different in a sense and unique.



But you don't have many options when you're pretty much in a way forced to play a specific game style of murder (by specific, I'm referring to the mutated games because people don't like original murder right now because of the emerald bug)
I never said it wasn't fun for others, but for the majority of people, they think it is not fun or isn't as fun as before. And just because YOU think it's fun, doesn't mean other's will... see, that can be used both ways so you can't really say that in an argument because it defeats the purpose of what you're saying if you can use it the other way around....

Cooldowns for jumping still won't do much anyway, I don't know why you're blocking the fact that it is hard for the murderer and giving simple solutions that generally don't make it much easier for the murderer... and this is just for one mutation type... and the fact that they can jump is still there, so doesn't do as much but it could still help the slightest bit and anything is good enough right now in my eyes, because I have a high chance of Murderer and it's quite hard.



You didn't say that in what you said, you literally said it is harder but it isn't harder and in no way did I see an implication of "harder in a certain aspect yet easier in another" so if you want it to be like that, it would probably be best to say that at first.
It's not just the playstyle of the mutation, playstyle doesn't matter in some cases.... mutations make it OP for the bystanders and although possible for the murderer to win, it is still extremely hard and people do get confused with all the sprinting from double jump and speed looks like sprinting without particles. I could change my gamestyle to many different things, but in reality none of them to me (and most likely a lot of people) would work any better than my original style of how to win as the murderer.
I could go running around swinging my sword out to get everyone or I could hide my sword and act innocent. The problem is, if I swing my sword, I'll get caught quickly and with the mutations, it's way easier to get away and to get a gun so your chances are lowered.
If I act innocent, everybody else has a gun, I don't... obviously in the end they'd expect me... or If it was double emeralds and after a few minutes or so I don't have a gun or such I'd be suspicious.... especially if there is a big group of people with guns which sometimes there is a small or big group of people that camp with guns and such. And in the double jump, obviously they can sprint at the same pace as me, and they can double jump all around the place making it exceptionally hard to get a hit if you through or sword or to even kill by left clicking anyway if they're in the air constantly jumping, and you can't really keep chasing that person for so long because otherwise somebody else is going to stumble across you and expose you as the murderer or shoot you.
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You are ignoring my points. I can't do all the thinking for you do I?

If it isn't clear enough let me tell you. The game is the same as before yet with differances. There is always going to be a way you need to play every game does this yet that way can have several ways (a path within a path).

Lets say speed and double jump was already in the game when it first kicked off. This would then make people think of ways to play. Orginally this was done with the orginal murder when seeing though walls for name tags was possible. Now this was real fun as murderer was actually difficult. If we re added that you would most likely be in the same position of saying its too hard. Which it was and wasn't. a new form was created for this reason (hit and run or rampage). Another one will be created for this. For example hiding and loring players inside. A lot of the time in temple the murderer stays inside so they are not spotted.

As well the orginal game is playable no mater what you say. Only one gun and the murderer only has 1 knife. My dude its playable might not be the same yet even if it wasn't intended this way doesn't mean it can't be changed to this way. As well the dev team have said many times in the past they want to keep murder as close to the orginal gmod. Their views might of changed as this update has came around yet yee im done.


Ima stop here since im tired of arguing on this subject. If you truly believe it is hard then make a suggestion for it or to remove it.

Simply think outside the box... I been here a while to know most things yet newer things pop up everyday by just thinking outside the box. For example italy is op for bystander because of the endless f5 spots.
 
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TimeLord said:
You are ignoring my points. I can't do all the thinking for you do I?

If it isn't clear enough let me tell you. The game is the same as before yet with differances. There is always going to be a way you need to play every game does this yet that way can have several ways (a path within a path).

Lets say speed and double jump was already in the game when it first kicked off. This would then make people think of ways to play. Orginally this was done with the orginal murder when seeing though walls for name tags was possible. Now this was real fun as murderer was actually difficult. If we re added that you would most likely be in the same position of saying its too hard. Which it was and wasn't. a new form was created for this reason (hit and run or rampage). Another one will be created for this. For example hiding and loring players inside. A lot of the time in temple the murderer stays inside so they are not spotted.

As well the orginal game is playable no mater what you say. Only one gun and the murderer only has 1 knife. My dude its playable might not be the same yet even if it wasn't intended this way doesn't mean it can't be changed to this way. As well the dev team have said many times in the past they want to keep murder as close to the orginal gmod. Their views might of changed as this update has came around yet yee im done.


Ima stop here since im tired of arguing on this subject. If you truly believe it is hard then make a suggestion for it or to remove it.

Simply think outside the box... I been here a while to know most things yet newer things pop up everyday by just thinking outside the box. For example italy is op for bystander because of the endless f5 spots.
Click to expand...

Refering to the emerald bug in non mutated games, I think that the point they're trying to make is that it is likely to turn away a lot of regular players. When I realised this was a bug that happened constantly, I immediately went to play something else because in my opinion, what is the point of playing if you don't have the oportunity to arm youself. You have no other choice but to wander around defenceless with absolutely no chance of winning and just hope that the gunner dies so you can take over. This introduces a huge element of luck that is just no fun for the majority of players. I really don't mind the occasional mutated game and yes, it is playable, but until the emerald bug is fixed, unfortunately I think murder will lose a lot of players.
 
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TimeLord said:
You are ignoring my points. I can't do all the thinking for you do I?
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I am not ignoring your points, you're pretty much contradicting yourself and not making sense by saying things like
it is harder but it isn't harder.

There is an emerald bug, this is not the way mcpz intended murder to be, which you said. But if there is a bug, why say things like try and turn the game into something else? In a sense, that's kind of what you're saying by changing gamestyle and stuff.

TimeLord said:
Simply think outside the box... I been here a while to know most things yet newer things pop up everyday by just thinking outside the box. For example italy is op for bystander because of the endless f5 spots.
Click to expand...

But who really wants to play a game as a bystander where they can't do anything but try to survive and not be able to get a gun?
Maybe some people, but most people don't really like the concept of that, spots or gamestyle doesn't change a thing, the fact that they can't get a gun and just have to HOPE they survive by hiding and such isn't very entertaining and exciting and those are aspects you should be entitled to have when playing a game.

TimeLord said:
The game is the same as before yet with differances.
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How can it be both? This is what I mean by not making sense because you keep saying something is something but also is not that same something. It can't be the same if it's with differences, and put it this way, people don't like changes or differences like the ones going on with regular murder right now.

TimeLord said:
There is always going to be a way you need to play every game does this yet that way can have several ways (a path within a path).
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I agree slightly but in this instance, eventually you'll run out of ways to play and have to chose between one you've already done which can get boring, or just end up in you easily dying. People shouldn't have to adapt to a new game style as a result of a bug.

TimeLord said:
As well the orginal game is playable no mater what you say.
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It is playable, but my point is, who wants to play when their chances of being a bystander are higher and they can't collect emeralds and they just have to survive by hiding and such. It's not very entertaining and or exciting and those are aspects you should have when playing games.

 
TheTurtleBros said:
I am not ignoring your points, you're pretty much contradicting yourself and not making sense by saying things like
it is harder but it isn't harder.

There is an emerald bug, this is not the way mcpz intended murder to be, which you said. But if there is a bug, why say things like try and turn the game into something else? In a sense, that's kind of what you're saying by changing gamestyle and stuff.



But who really wants to play a game as a bystander where they can't do anything but try to survive and not be able to get a gun?
Maybe some people, but most people don't really like the concept of that, spots or gamestyle doesn't change a thing, the fact that they can't get a gun and just have to HOPE they survive by hiding and such isn't very entertaining and exciting and those are aspects you should be entitled to have when playing a game.


How can it be both? This is what I mean by not making sense because you keep saying something is something but also is not that same something. It can't be the same if it's with differences, and put it this way, people don't like changes or differences like the ones going on with regular murder right now.



I agree slightly but in this instance, eventually you'll run out of ways to play and have to chose between one you've already done which can get boring, or just end up in you easily dying. People shouldn't have to adapt to a new game style as a result of a bug.



It is playable, but my point is, who wants to play when their chances of being a bystander are higher and they can't collect emeralds and they just have to survive by hiding and such. It's not very entertaining and or exciting and those are aspects you should have when playing games.
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You know I have no care in the world for the emerald glitch. Your main points are the emerlad glitch. I am not saying it should stay this way. In start of this I only wanted to say that just because 1 thing is added, changed, or removed. It would not be that hard as you might think.

Anyways I am tried of speaking about this subject. Simply put the game changes. I didn't like the change where name tags could not be seen anymore and I never will like that change yet some ideas and changes were made to make it fun. I have provided many examples unrelated and related to this subject you sir have not.
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CitrineRaindrop said:
Refering to the emerald bug in non mutated games, I think that the point they're trying to make is that it is likely to turn away a lot of regular players. When I realised this was a bug that happened constantly, I immediately went to play something else because in my opinion, what is the point of playing if you don't have the oportunity to arm youself. You have no other choice but to wander around defenceless with absolutely no chance of winning and just hope that the gunner dies so you can take over. This introduces a huge element of luck that is just no fun for the majority of players. I really don't mind the occasional mutated game and yes, it is playable, but until the emerald bug is fixed, unfortunately I think murder will lose a lot of players.
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Its just a bug all that I was pointing out is how I personally like it and how even that change would not be so hard. I only say that because it would make people more likely to stay with the gunner. As well a change were 2 or 3 gunners are possible so the murderer can't camp one gun. As well this would happen a lot in the old days or at least for me and even now it can occur. I get to 4 emeralds yet find the gunner dead and take the gun.


I do agree and see what you are saying so thank you.
 
TimeLord said:
You know I have no care in the world for the emerald glitch. Your main points are the emerlad glitch.
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Let me stop you there, it is not. My main points are that pretty much you can't play whatsoever and this bug has kind of forced us to adapt to a new style of game play at the moment which I don't think is good and the fact that mutations are way too OP for the murderer to take on, not just the emerald glitch and if you don't care about the bug why are you ranting on about my first post?

I'm not going to say anymore because I want to move on from this.
 
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