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Network Approve of Schematica

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Amandq, Jun 8, 2019.

  1. Amandq

    Amandq Legendary Partier Elite+

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    I, among many other players on the Minecraft PartyZone Network, are avid fans of building. I typically build worlds in singleplayer and input them onto creative servers to showcase my creations. Unfortunately, so much as using the schematica mod is considered a banable offence, and ya girl isn't trying to get banned.

    I understand why the schematica mod is considered a blacklisted mod due to the printer function, but there truly is no other reason to have it blacklisted. You can not copy other players build from the server, since you'd need a special world edit permission AND access to the console, which Elites/Elite+s do not have.

    This scenario is very similar to the un-blacklisting of Labymod to the extent of disallowing one feature of the mod, which was put in place.

    TL;DR: Amanda wants to build her dragon schematic on PZ without being banned, pls change this rule
     
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  2. Aluux

    Aluux Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Elite+

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    There have been many issues with this mod in the past which led to it becoming a banned mod. First of all, schematica, as you said, allows you to basically copy a build from one server, world etc. to another, This can easily mean players are copying builds from other people and claiming them as their own, it also removes a huge perk from the elites which is world edit, if a default, vip or vip+ knows they can use schematica they can easily go onto a network or singleplayer world where they have world edit, build something and schematic it over.

    A big issue which can come out of this, which has happened before while the mod has been banned is that people can easily copy peoples builds off of their plots, as well as copying builds from our hub, as well as maps from murder or other gamemodes, this is something we do not want happening which is also why this mod is banned.

    I do see why it would be a helpful mod for people to use as well as how it would come in handy, however I just dont see it working on partyzone due to the reasons ive stated.
     
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  3. Quoting vines til my bday

    Quoting vines til my bday Mythic Partier Elite+

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    Personally, I see no different between watching a tutorial while you build and using schematica as a template. The thing is, it has that "print" option. As long as people don't use the print option, I don't see any reason to not add it.
     
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  4. Amandq

    Amandq Legendary Partier Elite+

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    You can only get a schematic from a server that you have console access to, or from a single player world. If you got it from a map that you downloaded in single player, or got it from a website like the schematica forums, chances are, the original builder is okay with fair use.

    Also, copying builds ALREADY EXISTS on PZ. Elite+s can copy something that somebody else made and paste it on their own plot claiming it’s their own.

    See above. You can only get a schematic from a server you have world edit on and have console log access to. Unless regular players suddenly have access to console and world edit, I think the hub will be safe from being copied.

    If someone has the dedication to build something with world edit on another server then build it by hand on a creative plot, I say let them use it. I rebuilt a dragon schematic (in my own world, don’t ban me) with dimensions about 25x25x25. It was hell and took me three hours. If someone will make a larger, more complex build that they made with world edit, that’s dedication. You as a builder should know how how hard that would be to replicate something you made in world edit solely by hand.
     
  5. Quoting vines til my bday

    Quoting vines til my bday Mythic Partier Elite+

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    What's stopping people from taking screenshots of the build and then replicating it?
     
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  6. squid legend

    squid legend Champion Partier Elite+

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    I don't think you get the point of perks for donor ranks...
     
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  7. Valiencian

    Valiencian Legendary Partier Elite+

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    Schematica isn’t allowed due to it giving players an unfair advantage over others. People could use it as a way to copy others builds, which isn’t always the case but it still happens.

    If an event was hosted, such as build battle, with a theme based off of a build you may saved to it, you can use that as a form of cheating, basically.

    As Alex stated, VIP+’s and under can take their own builds where they have access to the server console and copy it over to their plot in Creative, which again, is unfair to other players.
     
  8. Timelord

    Timelord Heroic Partier VIP+

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    I see no reason as to why a build needs to be copyrighted or trademarked. Maybe as a builder yourself you feel like it should yet even with all the points made the mod just makes it easier to copy. I could just take screen shots and copy it myself saying I made it as well because I did just not the concept. Although no one would really do that cause its work. Same with your whole world edit thing it is work maybe less timely but still work while a elite can simply do it on the server.
    ...
    This kinda triggers me a bit, you can not expect everything to be perfect and well people will copy off the server such as murder mystery did and well we copied off of other people im sure or in someway we did. As much as party zone only is nice but very hard to maintain and there is no risk to making it "public". Not that you should make the maps downloadable but that it doesn't really matter apart from the server's selfishness.

    I'm sure the build battles are monitored if you mean what I think you do anyways same thing as above.
    Does it matter that much? Just a perk and I'm sure there are many more to come.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  9. Valiencian

    Valiencian Legendary Partier Elite+

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    It’s not exactly “selfishness” as you claim. The builders worked extremely hard on the hub and murder builds, if people did try to take them and claim them as their own then that’s a lot of hard work that they are taking credit for.

    Following up with your Build Battle answer, they are monitored but sometimes we can’t always tell if it’s happening. Speaking from my experience as staff, it’s difficult to catch and punish users using Schematica, them using it in build battle would be near impossible to catch. Whether or not we know about it, it’s still extremely unfair to players who work really hard on their builds.
     
  10. Timelord

    Timelord Heroic Partier VIP+

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    I understand that as building is very long and tedious but as said before you can't expect everything to go as planned as well don't always expect the worst in people. I would just get banned for having the mod not using it as the way you describe. I still call it selfishness and will continue that only because I believe that there is no reason not to share your efforts and show off a bit. While you might not be able to say you did it and brag about it you can be impressed by how many people download it or like it.
    ...
    Oh alright makes sense and well no one or server or moderation team is perfect. People get away with things as well you could also use that one mod ummmm that takes a visual image constantly and then if something like a generation of blocks occur you can then take away the prize and give them a small ban time or just make them unable to part take in build battles again.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  11. Quoting vines til my bday

    Quoting vines til my bday Mythic Partier Elite+

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    But wouldn't it be really obvious they're copying from a template?
     
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  12. Aluux

    Aluux Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Elite+

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    The issue with this is screenshots, yes you can copy it but you only see the outer layer, if we allow schematica people can easily use the “printer” part without us knowing, which allows you to copy maps and other parts of network builds using co ordinated to create a radius around a build. We’ve had this happen before and we do not want it to happen again.
     
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  13. Amandq

    Amandq Legendary Partier Elite+

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    Same thing goes for being E+ and using Copy&Paste.

    This is a fair argument, but I think you’d know if someone was using schematica. Typically they build one layer at a time or build really suspiciously. Or, if they use the printer, they’ll literally be banned for autoplacing.

    Get an anticheat, then. Mods can’t do all of the work.

    For the nth time, unless you have CONSOLE and world edit at the same time, you can’t take builds from any map. This includes murder, elite survival, lobbies, the hub and even creative. It would be easier to infiltrate the system, become a builder and copy the schematics from there— oh wait! You STILL wouldn’t be able to get the schematics because you don’t have console permissions!

    I don’t know how many people actually know how schematica works. Here’s the link if you’d like to know how it actually works, it’s function, etc.
     
  14. Timelord

    Timelord Heroic Partier VIP+

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    Oh ok, reasonable. Is there anyway besides banning the mod entirely to prevent this particular feature?

    As well how do you catch these people? Is it even possible as brought up by Vali it seems unlikely to catch anyone without actually seeing it happen and for the copy feature thing is this possible to catch? If not then why advertise you are banning a mod that can copy as that is more likely to get to more people and give the idea of coping the server.

    As reading up on the mod there appears to be a way to disable some features of it or maybe it's just the whole mod not sure.
    I don't really know the specifics but will look into the mod itself at sometime aka use a video lol cause I'm too lazy to set it up as well possibly get banned.

    As I'm still not certain about somethings... what do you mean by the last part and are you sure about that? By using older versions that might not have the limitations of the feature etc. And does this mean you can't copy but only paste?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  15. Amandq

    Amandq Legendary Partier Elite+

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    100%. You need a special command (//schemsave), which saves a schematic file to a section of the console, not really sure where. You need that file put into a part of your mods folder so the schematic loads. You can copy in a single player world (as it saves straight to a special little folder since it is hosted off of your computer) and paste anywhere, but you can’t copy from servers you don’t have world edit and don’t have console on.
     
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  16. squid legend

    squid legend Champion Partier Elite+

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    "Just a perk."
    "Just"
    Sure there is, but 2 things: 1. It's A VERY BIG PERK. Many people have bought Elite and E+ JUST for the w/e.
    2. Our perk output has been very slow recently... I don't think that if this mod is approved RIGHT NOW, that our perk output to make up for it would probably take until the server's dead.
     
  17. Amandq

    Amandq Legendary Partier Elite+

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    Schematics won’t take away from world edit. They have nothing in common unless using the printer function, which isn’t allowed.
     
  18. MorphicDream

    MorphicDream Developer Developer

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    The problem really is just as simple as allowing the mod will make it too easy for players to use the print function, I mean who wouldn't be tempted to do that. The print function as you have already pointed out would take away from the world edit perk.

    Also you mentioned Labymod, it was removed from the mod blacklist for a number of reasons one being that LabyMod has an API in which we can actually disable anything we don't like serverside, this was a huge sway for allowing it.

    I think a better idea would be allowing Elite+ the ability to upload a schematic file to the creative server

    Just my thoughts on the matter, nothing official
     
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  19. Timelord

    Timelord Heroic Partier VIP+

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    From what I have been looking into it appears there is a way to block Schematic mod users through a anti-cheat. I'm not certain yet but also I wonder if there would be away to disable only the printer feature or whatever else needs to be disabled as the mod creator from the looks of it is understanding of such events and might have made such things.
     
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  20. Cattt

    Cattt Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Elite+

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    I originally agreed with those against the implementation of this, but after reviewing comments
    from the community & looking more into it, I don't really see an unpreventable problem with it.

    If there is a way that we can limit it to a certain rank, which I'm assuming we can, this avoids
    the argument that it is taking a perk, world edit, from Elite and Elite+'s, as it could be limited to just those ranks.

    In the case we can block players from using the printer function, I see no additional issue with having this implemented.
    We can't always prevent terrible things from happening. For example, if someone griefs they are punished accordingly.
    The same can be applied to the printer function, if it isn't preventable of course, and they use it- they would be punished accordingly.

    These are just my thoughts on it, as I'm not completely familiar with it.
    Feel free to correct me on anything. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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