Network Rules and their Punishments

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Starzono, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. Starzono

    Starzono Ultimate Partier VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    241
    Trophy Points:
    2,157
    Gender:
    Female
    Minecraft Username:
    Starzono
    Hi there, I'm here with a suggestion that I would like to be asked to take very seriously, and read through everything I say. Thank you in advance.

    PART ONE: Knowing the Punishments

    What is this about?

    I'm asking for the punishments of the rules to be revealed to the public. Not one rule, not two, but all rules.

    What is the purpose for knowing the punishments?

    Knowing the punishments for breaking rules will actually encourage people to read the rules more, and it will also discourage breaking the rules. Knowing the punishments for actions definitely discourages rule-breaking. If a person knows that they will be muted, kicked, or banned for an action, they are less likely to do it.

    Why do I have a problem with not knowing the punishments?

    While I'd be on the side of the staff for keeping things private, I'm left to wonder, what are the punishments for rules? This goes for all places on the network. I used to be on the Discord Staff Team, and I know there was a list of what punishments to give for breaking each rule. So what, I can always report the staff for giving a harsh punishment. But is it their fault if the punishment they were told to give is cruel? No! I wouldn't consider it staff abuse if they were just doing as previously told. However, this brings up to my next point, what the entire thing is REALLY about.

    PART TWO: Negotiating Punishments

    What is this about?

    It isn't uncommon for people to have problems with punishments and how fair or unfair they are. Although, I believe it's best for the network if we have a kind of democracy with the rules. I want the punishments of the rules to be negotiated between both staff and players.

    How does this benefit the server?

    I would like to start off with saying that there will most likely be less accusations of staff abuse throughout the network. I will also say that with both staff and players negotiating the punishments, everyone will agree how the punishments are fair.

    How will this work?

    I don't know, in all honesty! I think that we can definitely have it so that there's a poll for punishments for breaking rules. Take hacking for example. This is an example of how we can set it up. [Subject to change.]

    How should we deal with hacking?
    -No Punishment/Remove Rule
    -Warn
    -Mute
    -Temporary Ban
    -Permanent Ban
    -Edit Rule (Give example)


    Yes, for my example, "no punishment" would be a stupid thing to say. This is where staff come in. If the majority vote says "No punishment," the staff can use common sense and veto the public's opinion. The same goes for if they choose "Mute" on hacking. Muting a hacker does nothing, so if that's the majority's opinion, staff can use common sense to up the punishment. Now, let me take another rule (ex. "Don't play songs that are more than 5 minutes long.")

    How should we deal with songs more than five minutes long on Discord?
    -No Punishment/Remove Rule
    -Warn
    -Mute
    -Temporary Ban
    -Permanent Ban
    -Edit Rule (Give example)


    This is where I'll say that either removing the rule or editing the rule should be in play. For example, if I said "edit rule," my opinion on the matter can be, "Up it to 10 minutes so that 6-9 minute long songs can be played in the Discord."

    Summary

    All and all, I believe the punishments for breaking all of rules should be revealed to the public, and that the players of PZ can vote on what are the appropriate punishments for certain rules.
     
    • Should Implement Should Implement x 8
    • Don't Implement Don't Implement x 8
  2. Iruu

    Iruu Staff Manager Staff Member Administrator Hipster

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    229
    Trophy Points:
    3,117
    Gender:
    Female
    Minecraft Username:
    Iruu
    I would like to clarify that we will not have the community help decide what punishments others get nor will we share the guidelines. This only benefits people in many ways. An example of this is they could look at it and be like, "oh I'll just a warn, not bad." They're called Staff Guidelines for a reason. If we wanted to we would have shared them from the start but no server would share the guides to what they do. It's staff information. You know the rules and should be following them. If you can't follow them then that's on you, not the staff. If the staff are abusing then take evidence and report it on the forums or message a leadership member. If it's a srmod then message me. Until further notice, the guidelines will never be shared to the public. Discord suggestions also go on the discord. While doing so you'll need to make a good argument as to why the rule should change/be removed. Not everything will be implemented mind you.

    The rules are out in the open anyways? The staff follow the same rules but they enforce them.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  3. squid legend

    squid legend Extreme Partier Elite+

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    682
    Gender:
    Male
    Minecraft Username:
    SquidLegend
    Personally, i'd like for "examples" of what would get you punished for a certain rule (not all of them would have these though, most of the bad word ones wouldn't. Also for example, the death threat rule would include an example akin to this: Player: "bla bla bla" (I don't want to say it for fear of being punished because that happens apparently) or you could have examples of things you CAN do too for example the d-word and h-word (I personally don't like them) you would say those are allowed, I'm pretty sure that already exists but for other rules you could do that) also I'd like for you to notify us when rules get updated because that doesn't happen currently (Although it does say "we have the right to update these rules without notice" so) or when you add an extra way to get punished (such as that one period of time where you could get punished for saying crap, then they would've notified you of that rule change.)
    oof that was badly organized and should probably be put into a different suggestion.
     
  4. Iruu

    Iruu Staff Manager Staff Member Administrator Hipster

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    229
    Trophy Points:
    3,117
    Gender:
    Female
    Minecraft Username:
    Iruu
    Leadership and myself are working on examples to add to the rules to help people. It's going to take a bit as we're all busy with things but it will be put on the discord when things are changed. If you have any examples for the rules though, don't be afraid to message me about them and I'll discuss it with leadership. We do have things to make things more understandable but I've been busy fixing discord staff things and network staff, so I apologize that it's slow as I'm busy with a few others things. If you're in the official discord then it will be put into the #changelog channel. I don't have an issue with announcing new rules in there as we're already doing that but I won't let the punishments for the rules be exposed to the community.
     
  5. squid legend

    squid legend Extreme Partier Elite+

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    682
    Gender:
    Male
    Minecraft Username:
    SquidLegend
    Okay, that's good that you're planning on doing that.
    I understand the reasons for not letting the punishments be exposed though, and I can't really think of any good reasons so on the suggestion itself i'll be voting no because I can't think of any reasons why it should be implemented.
     
  6. Aminuh

    Aminuh Heroic Partier Elite+

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2015
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    310
    Trophy Points:
    3,117
    Gender:
    Female
    Minecraft Username:
    Aminuh
    I think one of the concerns from community members and a point made within this post is we’re not necessarily sure if a member is staff is abusing punishments as we do not know what the punishment for each offense committed.

    For example if I was given an extensive mute for maybe an argument I started, first offense, I would not know whether that was following the punishment guidelines, meaning I would not know if the member of staff were abusing or not.

    Though I hope Senior Moderators and staff management check often to whether punishments issued by staff are indeed following the guidelines.

    Other than that, I definitely agree with keeping guidelines for staff view only.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Cat

    Cat Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Elite+

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2016
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    659
    Trophy Points:
    3,057
    Gender:
    Female
    Minecraft Username:
    Cattt
    There are other resolutions to concerns related to that which do not require the view of punishment guidelines available to the public.​

    ● For example, if you are unsure whether a staff member is abusing, contact a member of leadership. It doesn't even necessarily have to be a report, it could just be "Is this normal behavior for a staff member?" and we can assist you from there. If the scenario would involve a Senior Moderator, then you would contact Iruu in a similar manner.


    Regarding the suggestion itself, I find it very unnecessary to completely throw staff information out to the public. As Iruu stated, you're basically encouraging members to do something wrong as they'd know the punishment.
    ● If they do something wrong and they are aware of the punishment, then they would do it anyway because they now know the consequence of doing that offense and in their mind, it could have been a way more severe punishment, which could have prevented them from breaking that rule, to begin with. I do not see any genuine benefits coming from this suggestion. -1
     
  8. AJules

    AJules Event Team Leader Insights Leader Elite+

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2017
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    2,477
    Trophy Points:
    4,457
    Minecraft Username:
    AJules
    Sometimes other staff will bring it to leaderships attention and leadership will also notice if there is something incorrect happening regarding punishments. If you were given an extensive mute, like Cat said, it’d really be no bother to ask a senior moderator if this is normal or make a staff abuse form in case you were a bit anxious about going directly to a senior moderator one on one. You won’t get punished if you’re unsure about something and report it, unless you’re spamming and doing the fool, which is a whole new story. But I get that point. Players can’t really tell the punishments unless they’ve endured them enough times to certify that it’s around that time. But realistically keeping the guidelines just for staff may be more ideal, as stated from previous messages.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. xKxty

    xKxty Ultimate Partier Elite

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2014
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    111
    Trophy Points:
    1,842
    Gender:
    Female
    Minecraft Username:
    xKxty
    I agree with this suggestion. I think that rules should have a brief example of a punishment to encourage players to not break rules. +1 from me this is a brilliant suggestion
     
  10. squid legend

    squid legend Extreme Partier Elite+

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    682
    Gender:
    Male
    Minecraft Username:
    SquidLegend
    That isn't actually the suggestion, unless I missed something.
    Also if you meant the actual thing (saying punishments) it'd likely do the reverse.
     
  11. xKxty

    xKxty Ultimate Partier Elite

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2014
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    111
    Trophy Points:
    1,842
    Gender:
    Female
    Minecraft Username:
    xKxty
    literally at the start of the thread it says “I’m asking for the punishments of the rules to be revealed to the public”
     
  12. squid legend

    squid legend Extreme Partier Elite+

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    682
    Gender:
    Male
    Minecraft Username:
    SquidLegend
    That's what I was referring to when I said it would do the exact reverse...
     
  13. huakart

    huakart Mythic Partier Elite

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    1,830
    Likes Received:
    2,518
    Trophy Points:
    11,192
    Gender:
    Male
    Minecraft Username:
    huakart
    Just want to clarify that anyone can access Mineplex' punishment guidelines on their forums. They provide a list of offences, an example of said offence and the punishment to that offence.

    Aren't there examples on the punishment guidelines themself? You could just use those or re-word those.
     
  14. Iruu

    Iruu Staff Manager Staff Member Administrator Hipster

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    229
    Trophy Points:
    3,117
    Gender:
    Female
    Minecraft Username:
    Iruu
    Nothing against Mineplex but their stuff got leaked and has been leaking for awhile. Just because a server like mineplex does it doesn't mean PZ has to follow what others do. I know more servers that don't share their guidelines than ones that do.

    Dealing with the examples, they lack detail so they wouldn't help the community much, but I can't say anything else due to it being staff information.
     
    • Like Like x 1