Rejected Requirements for Helper Revision

Discussion in 'Closed Suggestions' started by Amandq, May 7, 2019.

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  1. Amandq

    Amandq Legendary Partier Elite+

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    Specifically;

    Remove or clarify the section which says "not be staff on any other competing networks (Excluding small private servers)". Currently, I am a member of staff on a network about the same size, if not a small bit larger, than PartyZone. This network deals with aspects completely different from PZ, though, as it contains SkyBlock, Prison and Factions, while PartyZone is creative and minigame orientated. Does that count as a competing server?

    Removing the rule entirely is also a viable option, in my opinion. I don't quite understand of what importance it could be to "stay loyal" to one network or another. I believe that if a player can stay true to PZ and the other network, there shouldn't be any running issues. If the player is caught leaking information, badmouthing PZ, etc, they should be reprimanded as such, like any other staff member is. If this rule is in place due to time management, it's almost like saying "you're not allowed to be on a sports team as it will take away from your time working on PartyZone."

    I have some reasoning as to why this is a requirement, but I don't believe it is completely necessary as long as the individual knows how to effectively manage themselves.
     
    • Should Implement Should Implement x 9
    • Don't Implement Don't Implement x 3
  2. squid legend

    squid legend Champion Partier Elite+

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    yes very good idea considering you reasoning
    i don't have anything to add
     
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  3. TimeLord

    TimeLord Heroic Partier VIP+

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    I believe this would be more of a administration issue than player issue. Anywho my opinion ...

    This requirement is probally so staff are on occasionally. Yes managing time is cool and all but there are those few cases that it just doesn't work or it might work at first but later it fails.

    Gonna remain neutral as I would like to hear more opinions on this as well.

    Also I would assume cases like this have been brought up and dealt with not just instantly denied by the administration.
     
  4. PrqyForTheWicked

    PrqyForTheWicked Dragonball Partier Elite+

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    I think it's more than you won't have as much time for PZ if you're moderating several servers. If the rule is actually on place just because of competition, then I agree. As well as this, we're allowed to mention other competitors.
     
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  5. xKxty

    xKxty Ultimate Partier Elite

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    If you want to be staff on both servers surely you'd understand how to manage your time uno. I think maybe there should be a section where you have to tell the staff team you're also staff elsewhere, but if someone wants to be staff on two servers they should have an understanding of time management and how to be active on both servers. And just like any other staff member, if they're inactive they get punished
     
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  6. Emviar

    Emviar Mythic Partier VIP

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    This has been suggested in the past, and the staff used the same excuse that's being discussed (about time management). They always say you won't have enough time for PZ if you're staff on other servers. Seems to me they don't trust potential staff members to manage their time correctly.
    Perfect analogy. Uh oh! You've got a part-time job? Sorry, but you won't have enough time to be on staff here.

    Here's my conclusion, I guess:

    If they honestly think being staff on even one other server will prevent somebody from adequately helping out here on PZ, then they expect far too much of Helpers, the first staff rank on the tree meant to be used as a training period, not an all-out 24/7 chat-lurker moderation rank.
     
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  7. TimeLord

    TimeLord Heroic Partier VIP+

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    Not everything is black and white ps good song.

    Anyways I'm sure there is more to it than that. Ever heard the saying don't judge a book by its cover. The rules cover might show a simple answer to why but the true story might be completely different. I suggest waiting for administration to give a good answer before concluding such things.

    Main reason I say this is the evidence provided so far does not show what really happens if this situation occurs. All we know is there is a rule that says you can't be staff on other servers. Everything else is just speculation even the idea that Amandq reapplied for helper but was denied due to being staff somewhere else or maybe she wasn't denied for that but for something else but felt as such it was that. Anyways... just speculation and hear say.

    So I really do suggest waiting for some more answers before concluding such things.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  8. xKxty

    xKxty Ultimate Partier Elite

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    no ones really speculating or concluding to things, it's just an idea that most likely the reason for the rule is either due to competition or time management. no one is saying it's 100% that reason, we're just saying if it is that reason then there's some simple solutions. I know years ago players were told it was due to competition, which is why there used to be a rule in place you couldn't mention other servers names. So not all of it is speculation
     
  9. TimeLord

    TimeLord Heroic Partier VIP+

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    I just don't want to give the impression that it isn't just speculation. And also interesting thanks ^^. Still there is no real proof for either things. Mainly because the staff team appeared to be unstable back then and answers were different from each staff member. Anywho I'm just trying to ask staff indirectly for this evidence so I feel I can choose a side as well I wanted to make said point to show the facts of the case just so its apparent that nothing is substantial at this time.

    Kinda disappointed nothing has been said about the subject but also maybe that's a good thing as the staff team are asking the question as a whole not as just one person giving the answer.

    I would vote yes as if it is to what PrqyForTheWicked said although even with that it would pose more vulnerability to the staff team and their information. As if you do know about the developer that basically went rogue and changed a lot of the server. There is more at play than someone just wanting to be staff at two places. I think I decided with this and will vote don't implement because of this current reason. Security is first before anything else as the players should feel secure and be secure.
     
  10. Rumq

    Rumq Champion Partier Elite+

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    Yeah, the "time management" is a bit of a stretch to say as an excuse, that is true. However, no matter what staffing rank you are on PZ, you are a role model for the server. Furthermore, staffing on more than one server makes you a role model else where. I see it less of about how much time you can commit (There are staff that are rarely active), but more about the example you are setting for players. Sure you would look committed to staffing, that's cool! But, are you committed to the server?

    Also about that "Time Management" excuse, I do have a view on that. If people are staffing on more than on server, they must have a lot of free time. But how much free time will be left after staffing for so long? A common occurrence for staff is to get "burnt out", more so for those staffing for longer periods of time. How long can you handle it? The sports team analogy was nice, but make that 2 sports teams, and some time for your home work, sleep and school/work. Organised people can handle it, but it would eventually get overwhelming.

    To sum it up, I see staffing as a commitment thing. If you're going to staff for a server, you need to do your best, and that takes both your effort and time. spreading yourself over into other positions only wears you out and makes you less reliable. \o/
     
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  11. xKxty

    xKxty Ultimate Partier Elite

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    With the time management thing I just think it depends on the person. For example I'm doing my gcses this year. and also had a part in a musical and I was able to manage revision, with rehearsals. Of course it left barely any time for a social life, but personally I wanted to sacrifice that to do revision & rehearsals. So like if a player wants to make the sacrifices of a social life for example, to be staff on two servers then that should be fine. I feel like it should only be an issue if the member starts becoming inactive. If they do, then some sort of punishment should happen, they should be made to chose between the two servers. But I feel as though players should be given the opportunity to try both if they wish.

    Yeah, I think it would be nice to get some clarification for the reasons behind it, time management and competition may be two but if there's others it would be nice to know about them uno. Hopefuly staff will get back to us soon
     
  12. Amandq

    Amandq Legendary Partier Elite+

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    > is staff on more than one server
    > a “role model”, something that is a good thing, on more than one server
    > i’m “unreliable” because i want to be a role model, a good person, someone who enforced the rules, on more than one server

    ?? please clarify. i punched this into my calculator and this stuff ain’t adding up.

    I’ve worked multiple jobs in the past; Administrator on one network, Helper on another. Everything turned out fine. I literally only resigned because of internal issues, not due to balance struggles. See my argument of “punish like you would if the person is inactive or leaking information”.
     
  13. Spirits

    Spirits Heroic Partier VIP+

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    I suggested this before and it got shut down in a heartbeat. I still agree with what I said then, however. PZ is seriously jealous of other servers, whether that's because of playerbase or popularity, I don't know. But I feel that the rule you mentioned really taxes upon the Helpers. That rule is basically saying "you're allowed to moderate our server, and ONLY our server. you aren't allowed to moderate other servers because you need to spend 24/7 on PZ moderating and you can't do that because you're messing about on other servers" (i'm exaggerating but you get the point). Helpers should be allowed to spend time on other servers, especially as staff.

    There's a question on the application form here where it asks if you have moderation experience. So if you do have moderation experience (say if I'm a moderator on Hypixel) then PZ literally restricts me from getting any more experience by forcing me to resign from Hypixel. Who says I can't help both servers? Who says I don't WANT to help both servers?

    With the initial rule in place, PZ is almost limiting what servers you're allowed to play so you can spend time on their own server. And that's unfair. Helpers AND moderators deserve the occasional break by going on Hypixel (I know of a few staff who do this) but this is difficult for them because from what I've heard and observed there needs to be at least one staff member online at all times. People are allowed to play and moderator other servers, and they could even be paid to do so in rare cases. Don't take that right away from them.
     
  14. TimeLord

    TimeLord Heroic Partier VIP+

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    "Requirement to not be Staff on other servers:
    There are two main reasons that we require our staff members to not be staff on any other server/network.
    • Firstly because it is a conflict of interest to be committed to two different networks.
    • Secondly because we have found that those players who are staff on multiple servers aren’t able to fully commit themselves to the Helper role. We want staffing to be an enjoyable experience for our Helpers and being dedicated to multiple servers is often too much for players." - hypixel application for helper.
    Even the most well known server requires this and the reasons are given above. I think you are over stepping the line here. This is the main reason I wished many would consider waiting for a answer before making their conclusions. Does this server have a reason to be jealous?

    Anyways think of real life for a second. Many people in let's say teaching as that's a popular subject. They might start somewhere such as west virginia to get experance but realize other places are better for money, benefits, and what not. So they move there and get a job. Or for example corporations big name ones where secret information is traded for money/wealth.

    Anyways my whole point is that there is more than just a server not allowing their administration/staff to work somewhere else.
    ...
    But to be honest I'm more surprised staff haven't responded yet nor voted on such a matter.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  15. Spirits

    Spirits Heroic Partier VIP+

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    This isn't real life. This is a video game designed for kids.

    It should be the person's choice if they want to resign. If they think they can manage time effectively (and I know people can) then good on them, they can stay. But if you're being forced to resign then 1. that's a little mean and 2. you don't have your freedom. Being forced to resign doesn't seem like an "enjoyable experience."
     
  16. TimeLord

    TimeLord Heroic Partier VIP+

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    I guess I did go a little extreme with companies and such anyways my point here is that mcpz is a company none the less. Security is important.

    I mean I completely agree. It should be the person's choice. I would like it if this were implemented as I had said before. Yet I feel the safety of the players comes first. That is the whole point of staff after all.
    Cause in a perfect world this might work but there are some evil people in this one and things happen.
     
  17. Aluux

    Aluux Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator Elite+

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    There are a few reasons I can think of as to why this rule is in place, one of these is to stop staff from having to split their time equally between two servers, if a staff member has been staff somewhere else for around a year or so then applies here and also gets the position, their dedication will be to the other network and so, although they may not think it, they would subconsciously proritise the other network over this one due to the fact they've been there longer and feel more comfortable there.

    Another reason is that if you were to be staff on two networks, there is no boundaries there to stop you from easily sending over staff information from one network to anothers staff team, yes this is punishable, however it is understandably hard to detect, all a network has to do if they receive another networks information is tweak it a little bit so it doesnt look exactly the same, then theres the question on who actually gave it out to them, and thats if someone discovers the similarity in the first place.

    I do see why this could benefit some people, but I believe the requirement is suitable and should remain where it is.
     
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  18. jedijoe

    jedijoe Senior Moderator & Feedback Leader Staff Member Senior Moderator Elite+

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    Hello and thank you for sending in your suggestion.

    At this time, after some deliberation, this suggestion will be denied for the following reasons:

    • While it wouldn't be impossible for a person to manage their time between this network and some other, it'd get easier to mix up the potential differences in rules and how the different servers handle different offenses, with the server that ends up with the most time being most likely to take precedent with this effect
    • When you're staff on more than more than one network, as stated above, there is nothing really stopping you from transferring information from one team to the next. Which sure not everyone would use, but the possibility is too great to ignore.
    • Even if you were to bar the points above, you run into some issues where when you stack the responsibilities of being staff on multiple potentially active networks, the stress of juggling it all in a block game instead of just playing can dramatically reduce a user's mood, and increase, well, their stress. We do not wish or advise this for any prospective staff member.
    We thank you again for your suggestion.
     
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